Jack Nicholson Interview

by Peter Bogdanovich

from Suddeutsche Zeitung Magazin

Jack Nicholson and I first met at Roger Corman’s office sometime in 1966 or 1967. We’ve remained friends since then. This conversation was tape recorded in Nicholson’s living room in the Mulholland Drive house he’s lived in for about forty years, on August 11th and August 22nd, with a follow - up final phone conversation on September 11, 2006. The following has been edited for clarity.  
 
 
Peter B.: I feel I haven’t sat down with you in thirty years.  
Jack N.: Well, we haven’t sat down in a while. We’ve had a lot of talks, though, brief, but they always retained serious content.  
 
You’re looking good, Jack.  
I’m feeling pretty good. I’m feeling the old Pickford-Fairbanks... Am I too old to be in movies? I’m feeling that part of it. That’s what I feel about longevity.  
 
So when did you first think you were going to get involved in writing or directing or acting in movies?  
You know, I came to California at 16, out of school, kind of thinking I would go back to college after taking a half a semester off. I come from a non - affluent background - no help, no connections - so therefore I was a typical teenager wondering what in the name of God am I going to do to make my way in life. I wasn’t clear enough, being an adolescent, to know that I sort of always hoped to do this, as people who love the movies do, anyway.  
 
You did - you mean, even when you were much younger?  
Yeah, I was an assistant manager of a theater in my home town, the Rivoli in Belmar.  
 
A movie theater.  
Yeah. And always loved the movies. So when I got my job at MGM, the front part of my head was saying a very honest thing. I wanted to see movie stars, ‘cause I’m a big fan. I was ready to go back - I actually had my ticket-I bought it on my birthday. I didn’t get this job that I applied for at MGM first time around.  
 
What year was this?  
This was 1955. In fact, I got my job in the movies through the only door that wasn’t inside a studio wall in all of Hollywood. Labor Relations at MGM - you know how you walk by the gate there, and then turn and go into the Thalberg building. Well, over that spiked gate was this one door - didn’t even have a step - Labor Relations. That’s where I applied and that’s where I started in Hollywood. I was an office pinkie in the cartoon department.  
 
I read somewhere that you grew up thinking that your grandmother was your mother, and that your real mother was your sister.  
Yes, she was also a dancer in show business. She was an easy novel to write the story of my sister/mother’s life. But I didn’t find that out until way into my 30s and they had both passed on. By then, I was a supposed introspective artist. I understood it - I know exactly what my initial reaction was-gratitude.  
 
Really?  
Absolutely. Well, you know, you get it in a moment. It’s a real moment. And I am that kind of person-what do I feel-and had the tools to know what I feel. Gratitude. I’ve often said about them: Show me any women today who could keep a secret, confidence, or an intimacy to that degree, you got my kind of gal.  
 
Didn’t that information overwhelm you in some way?  
Well, it definitely overwhelmed you. It got my attention.  
 
To think about it?  
That was the first thought. I had many other thoughts. One of the toughest ones about being grateful was: I didn’t have to deal with it with them. They were dead. You don’t like to admit you’re happy in any way that two of the people you loved the most in your entire life had passed on. But that was one of the reactions. Look, it’s why I can’t be my normally liberal self totally pro-abortion. In today’s world, I wouldn’t exist - you understand what I mean?  
 
You mean you would have been aborted?  
Yes. June [his mother] was only 16 - she was having a good career herself - chances are... You know, it’s one of those things you think you’ll never change your mind on in life and I changed my mind on it - not for logic, but for karma.  
 
Did you ever know your father?  
No.  
 
Do you know who he was?  
I’m pretty sure he’s deceased, but within the family unit it is still a somewhat open discussion. But not that open. A pretty good guy - I talked to him - when I found this out on the phone. But I didn’t want to get to know him. I didn’t have the urge - to see what this is all about. In my 30s, psychologically I’m formed. No, I didn’t see any real reason for it. And there were plenty of reasons to go into it.  
 
Not to talk to your dad?  
To re-include this - what’s normally a cardinal relationship in your life - under those circumstances.  
 
Did knowledge of the truth make you have to reexamine your childhood? Go back and rethink it?  
Well, it did clarify a lot of things, because in either event my grandmother was a single parent. So somewhere in there you start thinking about everything - I always thought it was interesting that my supposed parents’ relationship broke up kind of congruent with my birth, and as deep as an 11- to 14-year-old mind can go, I thought, “I wonder if there’s something... This seems strange to me.” It verified certain very murmuring intuitions. I didn’t invest in it. It wasn’t like, “Oh, this might have happened.” It was just that it had gone through my mind. Other things it clarified: the nature of my sister/mother and my grandmother’s relationship. They were Irish warriors and powerful women. This is ideal. I had a father-figure, Shorty Smith, still one of the greatest people that ever lived in my opinion.  
 
Who was he?  
He was my other sister’s husband.  
 
Not the sister who was your mother?  
Not that sister.  
 
There’s another sister.  
June and Lorraine. Incidentally, I found this out through Buck’s friend when they did that Time cover on me.  
 
Buck Henry?  
Yeah. His girlfriend was an editor at Time and they got the information -

It must have blown your mind.  
It definitely blew my mind. First of all, I call home and Shorty was there. And I said, “Shorty, I just got this call - and so on - “ He says, “Absolutely not true.” I said, “Okay, Shorty, good, I didn’t think so,” etc. Now, about 2:00 o’clock their time, so they must have burned some oil on this one, the phone rings and I say, “Hello.” And he says, “Jack, it’s Shorty, I’m gonna put Lorraine on the phone. I just want to say one thing - she’s been crying all night. Here she is.” That’s the way he led into it. And then the discussion ensued. And that’s when I thought, “Geez, this is mind blowing, but I’m glad I didn’t have to deal with it all those years.”  
 
You didn’t have to deal with the two people...?  
With all the people. In a way, I’m raised by women, grew up in a beauty parlor, had a very strong Polish railroad brakeman, honest guy who was - he had acknowledged when I was 8 or 10 or in there that I might very well be a lot smarter than he was so I didn’t have a repressive, competitive father. I always have a plan, it never goes that way but normally it goes better than my plan. I didn’t have the conflict with the father figure, but I had the strength of the father figure. I didn’t have a possessive mother figure, I had a committee unbeknownst to me who obviously were thoughtful and committed. One of the things I’ve been lucky about in life is I’m not subject to emotional blackmail, which is normally one of the big spins you get from your family. So this was just, by structure, not happening. So I looked at it as ideal. And all the concern, I mean extra concern.  
 
When did your grandmother and mother pass away? Had you already become successful?  
When this came out through Time, they said, “We’ve heard this rumor, Jack.” And I said, “It’s true. But, you know, I’m an open honest guy - I would prefer you didn’t write about this. Write about it if you want to, but the reason I don’t want you to write about it is I’m a writer. And I’ve never had anything this dramatic to write about in my life and I may want to write about it.” And, interestingly, to the credit of the fourth estate, they didn’t. I was asked about it a dozen times. And not one of those people felt the need to write about it. It’s why at this moment I sort of stopped the flow because there’s certain things about it that needn’t be discussed, and that I still may want to draw on myself, from a literary point of view. Like when they died. That’s why “My Sister/Mother June” is an easy novel.  
 
Yes, it’s an extraordinary story.  
She went from being with [Broadway impresario] Earl Carroll, went south with him, hung out with the Lucky Luciano ambiance of Miami. The war broke out, she became the girl in the control tower at Willow Run, which was the busiest Air Force position in World War II and from that married America’s leading test pilot, one of the men who actually was one of the first men to break the sound barrier before it was done officially. One of the first people to fly in a jet plane, a ne’er-do-well, son of a Connecticut brain surgeon, with a drinking problem. Her life was so specific... I had never done a major studio picture. She was terminal. We were on the outs. She had fears for my future - she was my sister. And she’s here and with terminal cancer, and I knew I would be the only person who could deal with that. I’ve got a pregnant wife, I get this crazy picture with Josh Logan [Ensign Pulver., 1964], for the money, basically. I desperately needed money. I had to say goodbye to her - going on location - told her everything I thought about death. And told her everything: What I thought about death and where it was and so forth. At the end of the discussion, because I was going down to Mexico, she looked me in the eye as I was leaving and said to me, “Shall I wait?” And I said, “No.” After I said “No”, I went into the elevator and collapsed, of course. All of us flew down to Mexico - we got held over a day because of a thunderstorm - and almost immediately after I arrived, I got the wire she had passed away. It’s so wildly dramatic, you know, it’s a strange thing. As I say, it’s the easiest novel. I collect people who are easy novels.  
 
It’s an amazing story.  
When I got back from that picture my daughter Jennifer was born - the day I got back.  
 
You were still a kid then.  
Yeah. Twenty-seven.  
 
When we first knew each other I felt that your primary interest was writing and directing, more than acting.  
That was because I wouldn’t have planned to be working for 10-12 years and studying, working along, not making a good living, but surviving with a family, and a child and take twelve years before suddenly overnight - I had the experience - wait a minute - I’m a movie star! I’ve got to change my plans.  
 
That was after Easy Rider. [1969].  
One screening in Cannes. I know that audience, I know exactly what it is - I’ve been there, done that. I don’t think anybody ever experienced that apocryphal story of “My God, I’m a movie star” with as much background to be sure that it’s true. Great. I had 10-12 years. It’s a very demanding form of filmmaking and most of the lessons are what I still follow - it’s why I’m kind of a no-nonsense movie-maker. There was no nonsense in those days with Roger. Price - time - that’s it. Other than that, he didn’t want to hear from you. Very exacting formula.

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